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Do all armwrestling referees really know armwrestling ? │ UPDATED

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Some armwrestling referees really know what they are doing, they understand how armwrestling works, they know what to look for in an armwrestling match, because they also love the sport and they like to do armwrestling trainings, and some even compete in armwrestling tournaments. They know how it feels to be an armwrestler. In my opinion the best armwrestling referees are the ones that at least at one point in their lifes they were armwrestlers, they trained and went to armwrestling tournaments.

Then there is a second type of referees which don’t know how it feels to be an armwrestler, because they don’t like to train and they never went to tournaments. I have the feeling that this type of referee is the Anonymous WAF Referee who wrote this letter from Armpower.NET: “REFEREE’S CAMERA CAUSES TROUBLE FOR JOHN BRZENK”.

First, it’s never a good idea to pick on an armwrestling legend like John Brzenk, who I believe he fouled a lot less than others. Second, it’s impossible to find an armwrestler who never fouls. Simply because armwrestlers don’t want to foul but it just happens, and many times you don’t even feel that you fouled because your entire body is pumped and your attention is directed towards winning the match. Of course it’s very easy to write “Train to learn not to raise your elbow, not to move it sideways “, when you really don’t know how it feels to train for armwrestling…

Note: If the Anonymous WAF Referee happens to read this article and feels offended, it’s fine with me… 🙂

UPDATE – Some comments from facebook:

Neil Pickup ► Arm wrestling:

The unfortunate reality that this Referee or ANY other for that matter to understand, is that the success or otherwise of Armwrestling depends entirely upon its appeal to the wider viewing Public & that therefore by moving the Sport in the direction of more clinical, strictly enforced rules, which ULTIMATELY DETRACT from the only real selling point that the Sport has got (ie. THE WARS) is totally & utterly counter productive. END OF !!! Armwrestling as a Sport needs to collectively WAKE UP to the reality of our sport & it’s key criteria. The elements which appeal to the Mainstream non Armwrestling public. IF NOT our sport will not progress regardless of how Professional & exceptionally well organised an event may be.

Engin Terzi ► Armwrestling John – Engin:

any ref who thinks that softer elbow pads will not help pullers to foul less, does not know about armwrestling..any ref who tells us to not to drive our elbows to side way,knows absolutely nothing about the armwrestling..also i didnt get the reason to invovle John with this subject. camera refs watch the match after fouling over and over..why ? are they not sure of what they call ? if they are sure then why do they watch again ? if they are not sure then there is a possibility of a wrong desicion..and if wrong desicion then what are they gonna do ? “OHH SORRY WE STOPPED THE MATCH BUT WE MADE A WRONG DESICION..HEY ZOLOEV YOUR ARM WAS OPENED TILL 110 DEGREE ANGLE AND YOUR WRIST WAS TOPROLLED BUT YOU HAD YOUR PRONATOR ..HEY PRUDNYK YOU HAD FULL HAND CONTROL BUT YOUR SHOULDER WAS AWAY FROM YOUR HAND..OK LETS START FROM WHERE WE STOPPED THE MATCH”.. or there will be a new start even though for example one of the pullers were clearly had advantage to win the match ? dont tell me that cameras dont make mistakes as i can bring proves here but i dont wanna offend anyone..we all own armwrestling and armwrestling should be directed by the people who knows armwrestling.. i am sick of being silent by hoping that all will go unto right direction..once you try something and it doesnt work then no need to be stubborn..also why only in the final matches there is camera reffing ? the other matches that determine the finalists ,are not important ? we must care about the sport first.. i can share tons of pictures,videos etc to prove so many wrong things in armwrestling (mainly by the refs) but i dont want the things to become dirty..the last thing we would want in armwrestling is another split..there are some rich people around to create even bigger federation with maybe even prize money awards one , no organisation is unreplaceable..if we want to walk UNITED then we must open our ears to everyone,esspecially to people who gave their lives in armwrestling..

these words just turned me on, “Train to learn not to raise your elbow, not to move it sideways ” .. even someone on the street would not make such comment.. how can this person be a WAF ref ?

only a few people would intentionally lift their elbows..the rest just happens..but again, call the elbow fouls but also create rules to minimize it (such as softer elbow pads and maybe even bigger elbow pads)..

“train to learn not to move your elbow side way” can not imagine a comment as ridicilous as this one..someone please shoot me!

“train to learn not to move your elbow forward way” (hook pullers are in trouble)..”train to learn not to move your elbow back way” (bye bye toprollers)..just stay solid and move your forearm only as we are going back to primitive armwrestling..also do not cheat by curling your wrist..

UPDATE 2 – More comments from facebook:

Marcin Mielniczuk ► Armwrestling John – Engin:

I will defense little bit this person, who write this text – there is written “do not make a foul” – there is no text “keep your elbow frozen”.

and for sure – this FIRST fight with the cammeras between John and Taras was the record of fouls for John in one Armfight. As I remember there was elbow “jump” faul called in first 3 or 4 rounds.

hat was record in one armfight for him. for sure John is smart and after few fouls he changed his tactic / technic. I was there as the cammera referee… 🙂

John R Brzenk ► Armwrestling John – Engin:

I needed a good smile and laugh this morning… Thank you anonymous 🙂

Yea … Lol … I practice this cheating aspect of lifting my elbow …. Very good … No wonder I can’t pull PAL anymore their on to me !!! 🙂

Engin Terzi ► Armwrestling John – Engin:

armwrestling is for the armwrestlers..i am sick of refs behaving like correction officers who treat prisoners..the rules should be made to create more of armwrestling and less of fouls..AGAIN not saying that refs shouldnt call the fouls but saying that softer and bigger pads will help..

Felix Bürger ► Armwrestling John – Engin:

oh Marcin Armpower Net … now you made yourself and your organisation look like a fool …. I bet you wrote that letter ???

Engin Terzi ► Armwrestling John – Engin:

i would not blame PAL which is the best pro organisation in the world ,for this thing..but again i wouldnt involve John in this subject esspecially now when the things are not as it used to be between PAL and John..i just cant stop wishing them to be friends again by remembering all those good years and great things that they have done friendly move may fix the things..yes John is the greatest puller ever but we must also respect PAL that has brought armwrestling to next level in last 10 years..what is the greatest fun in the end of every year for the armwrestling world ? Nemiroff of course.. lets not personalize the problems..lets focus on the problems and fix them.JMO

Marcin Mielniczuk ► Armwrestling John – Engin:

” Felix Bürger – no – this is not my text. I’m the WAF ref. Even I’m not ref in PAL anymore. I started technical ref by the cameras and now I will ask – did you get ANY PROBLEM with camera refering during PAL Vendetta or Nemiroff? I didn’t saw any questions (I don’t remember that). There was few questions, few problems (like last year fight between Hutchings and as I remember Bresnan) when they pulled few times without result.

John R Brzenk – “I practice this cheating aspect of lifting my elbow” – no one said that. I said that there was some fouls called because of the cammeras. For sure you remember this fight.

Emir – it’s possible his elbow was lifted by Taras power. But it was catched by the cammeras. And even John was supprised and wanted to see what was recorded.
check about:
– 1:20 min. Do you see this?
– 1:42 min

This type of refering is bad for sure. But check style of John fight after that. He starts steady and focused on his arm. And? No more fauls…

And please – stop looking for something what not exists. We didn’t looking for topics to blame John or someone else. We can not say that he is not a legend. He is the most titled person in this sport and we are not stupid and try to destroy it. There was a problem, it’s not solved but we are taking this as it is. Remember, that contract is signed for some time. We are not 1 or 2 years old organisation and we can wait for competitors some time. We are respecting contracts signed by them and other organisations plans. As I heard there is some point in contracts, where is written, that if you sign this contract you can not pull in USA events or events filmed, broadcasted in USA. Next year we are going to make something in USA. We are going to film it and broadcast it worldwide. Please tell me how to combine contracts and our events? For me impossible. 

I’m tired now. All last days I can read that there is a big between us and John. I can say – stop it. There is no unsolvable problems.

I didn’t say that this is the best option ever. But i’m trying to show, that this is not too bad. “

Brendan Downes ► Armwrestling John – Engin:

Very simple imo…If the refs cant agree on an outcome and are unsure..go to camera. Only other time is a protest that the person protesting pays for. Besides this keep the Vid ref out of it

Engin Terzi ► Armwrestling John – Engin:

what Brendan said + softer pads :))

Marcin Mielniczuk ► Armwrestling John – Engin:

How I made the “cam-ref” (lets call it like that). If you see the elbow foul on cammeras monitor – call this faul. If you didn’t saw fauls – don’t call and call winner. ONLY when you are not sure – just check. If the main ref is sure for winner – and you are at least 75% sure there was no foul – call winner. It works. But I made thousands fights as the ref-cam…

conclusion: refs – train for cam-ref. competitors – train to not make a foul (I know – now you don’t like me)

we are working for new elbow pads. don’t worry.

John R Brzenk ► Armwrestling John – Engin:

IMO there is NO advantage to having your elbow lift in the air other that to get a higher hand with wrists straight on the start . When elbows pop or lift after the match has started I would vote let it go unless their off the back of the pad. As far as softer pads go I think it’s a mistake … I don’t think the arm or bicep is near as stable strong when the elbow is in the air … Hence torn biceps tendons on numerous guys now that have wrestled on Travis’s NAL table . Which by the way is super soft like wrestling on pillows .

As far as the article goes ! Your right again Marcin I must have misread the points being made … I’m sorry 🙂

Let’s do a little test to see how much of an advantage lifting your elbow creates … Air curl as much as you can … The see how much you can do with your elbow securely wedged on a table top !

Calling elbow lifts during a match is dumb … Having a camera do it is well … The answer to that will be at the end of the article ……………. 🙂 dumber !

Engin Terzi ► Armwrestling John – Engin:

i wish PAL to contact John and fix these someone who has spent most of his life in armwrestling,i respectfully ask both John and PAL to fix the problems..i would ask PAL to do this since they are the organisor and also because John deserves this..PAL is the best PRO ORGANISATION in last 10 years and John is the greatest ever..please guys! make everyone happy! you guys did GREAT things together !